Nudge Commands -- four errors

[Rob M.]

The online help within Encore 5.0.2 for Windows contains the following statement:

Using the Nudge Commands

Menu: Edit Command: Nudge [ ]

The above should include reference to the [Ctrl] key. Without it, using either the "[" or "]" key flows a measure into or out of the system that the cursor is currently located in. I think a more accurate "quick reference" would look something like:

Menu: Edit Command: Nudge [Ctrl]+[ [ ] [Ctrl]+[ ] ]

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The Encore 5 User Manual (v3.2) is correct in this regard. It states, at pages 105 and 165:

Nudge
Although the Nudge commands exist as menu items, the keyboard shortcuts are the preferred method to nudge objects. The four nudge commands are:
Nudge Left [control/command]+ [ (open bracket)
Nudge Right [control/command]+ ] (close bracket)
Nudge Up [shift]+[control/command]+ [
Nudge Down [shift]+[control/command]+ ]

The basic nudge operations move data left or right and up or down. ....

However, the last statement above is slightly too comprehensive. I think it should read:

The basic nudge operations move data left or right and (except for notes) up or down.

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While the User Manual correctly describes Encore 5.0.2's behaviour, the short-cut keys for vertical nudges in the Edit menu of E502W are not accurate. That menu shows:

Nudge Up Ctrl+Shift+]
Nudge Down Ctrl+Shift+[

Ctrl+Shift+] results in a downward nudge, not upward; Ctrl+Shift+[ results in an upward nudge, not downward. However, clicking on the menu entry provides the action named.

---------

The Nudge Up and Nudge Down shortcut keys for Windows are also incorrectly stated on page 255 of the Encore User Manual.

[q]

 

Rob's observations about User Manual errors are correct, so I hope not to contradict his statements with these additional observations:


I searched the User Manual (2009 v3) for Move Notes Up a Half Step, and Move Notes Up. Neither produced a hit.

Searching for Move Note brought me to on page 121. The brief description there is adequate. However, if the description also included a list of the menu item names, users could search and find the terms that Encore uses in its user interface:


Move Notes Up a Half Step
Move Notes Down a Half Step
Move Notes Up an Octave
Move Notes Up an Octave
Also, interesting that:


• we move notes AND objects right or left command/control [ or command/control ].
... and as described in the following section from page 106:


• we move objects (BUT NOT notes) up or down with a modified version of shift command/control [ and shift command/control ]
Nice to have some level of separation over notes and non-note objects. BAD keystroke choice in my opinion.

From page 106:


Nudge Up and Down


Encore allows you to use Nudge Up and Nudge Down commands on objects. To change the pitch of a note up or down, use Move Notes in the Notes menu.
q

[q]

Too bad we no longer have a simple name for 'nudging' pitches.

It would be nice if we had a single word verb that would take present tense 'ing', past tense, 'ed', etc.

q

[Denkster]

Hi Rob M.,

Ctrl+Shift+] results in a downward nudge, not upward; Ctrl+Shift+[ results in an upward nudge, not downward. However, clicking on the menu entry provides the action named.

Thanks.
I noticed that too.
Same error in French.
Conclusion: Shortcut description in menu is wrong, text only.
reported. Ticket #499.

kind regards
Eveline

[commnthings]

E502W

Greetings all,

You seem to have been talking about the Mac version. I (finally!) noticed in the Windows version (likewise in the Mac version) that there are two different menu versions for the "Nudge" command. In the Edit menu (Mac - page 105 / Windows - page 165) you get

Edit Menu - Nudge.gif (17.61 KiB) Viewed 2247 times

while in the Notes menu (Mac - page 121 / Windows - page 181) you get

Notes Menu - Nudge.gif (40.53 KiB) Viewed 2247 times

Notice that there are different shortcuts given for the Windows versions in the Edit and Notes menus. The version in the Edit menu will not work! The version in the Notes menu work correctly.

The manual does not show the top level Notes menu for either Mac or Windows so I don't know what the menu actually says for the Mac. Nevertheless, there is a serious error in the manual as well as in the Menus. Also, the shortcuts in the manual (page 255-256) are wrong.

I'll report the Menu bug in the Encore forum later today - gotta run to a dentist appointment.

Regards,

Bob

[Rob M.]

E502W

Greetings all,

You seem to have been talking about the Mac version. I (finally!) noticed in the Windows version (likewise in the Mac version) that there are two different menu versions for the "Nudge" command. In the Edit menu (Mac - page 105 / Windows - page 165) you get ...

Thanks, Bob. When I started this thread, I had overlooked the fact that I was looking at the section of the Manual that dealt with the Mac menus, in spite of the fact that I had stated right off that I was dealing with the Windows version of Encore. I've now edited my original post to include the page reference for the Windows menu chapter.

q has already addressed the error in the manual that fails to point out that the vertical nudge commands in the Edit menu work on most objects, but not on notes. Like q, I think the differentiation is a good thing -- it makes it possible to use a block select to nudge several objects vertically without affecting any notes that are included in the block select. But it does need to be better set out in the Manual in both the Mac and Windows sections.

While we're on the general topic of the separate sections of the Manual for Mac and Windows menus, I think it would be a Really Good Thing if the Mac section (pp.92-157) avoided references to Windows features like the Control and Alt keys, and the Windows section (p.158-221) avoided references to Apple features like the Command and Option keys. The inclusion of the inappropriate references obfuscates the information provided, and makes it much harder to interpret.

[q]

While we're on the general topic of the separate sections of the Manual for Mac and Windows menus, I think it would be a Really Good Thing if the Mac section (pp.92-157) avoided references to Windows features like the Control and Alt keys, and the Windows section (p.158-221) avoided references to Apple features like the Command and Option keys. The inclusion of the inappropriate references obfuscates the information provided, and makes it much harder to interpret.

Excellent point. The Mac Menus section is about Mac menus, so why even mention the Windows keystroke equivalents? There's a separate chapter for that.

q

[q]

q has already addressed the error in the manual that fails to point out that the vertical nudge commands in the Edit menu work on most objects, but not on notes.

Like q, I think the differentiation is a good thing -- it makes it possible to use a block select to nudge several objects vertically without affecting any notes that are included in the block select. But it does need to be better set out in the Manual in both the Mac and Windows sections.

Actually I'd rather have selection filters and general nudge up and nudge down commands. Then nudge would mean one thing, and the user could apply it to various objects. But we're probably a long way from that, so this is adequate for now.

q

[Denkster]

You seem to have been talking about the Mac version.

I ,meant the Windows version.

Notice that there are different shortcuts given for the Windows versions in the Edit and Notes menus. The version in the Edit menu will not work! The version in the Notes menu work correctly.

Both work, but the edit menu nudge options do not move notes up and down.
For that you need to use the note menu options.

Eveline

[commnthings]

...but the edit menu nudge options do not move notes up and down

Dear Eveline,

Those were the ones I was talking about - the "Move notes up/down" command in the Notes menu. The other commands in that menu appear to work correctly. The Nudge commands in the Edit menu all work correctly.

E502Win

Bob

[Denkster]

Maybe it is better to express the functionality this way:
With the options of the Edit menu, one cannot change the contents of the music.
The Edit menu is for layout aspects only.
Moving notes up and down changes the musical content.
To change the musical content, the notes menu is required.

Eveline

[commnthings]

The Edit menu is for layout aspects only.

Eveline,

I agree, BUT then 1) the functionality must be changed to correct the differences between the two menus (i,e, correct the Notes menu and delete the "Nudge" commands from the Edit menu) and 2) the manual must be changed to reflect the changes. Right now the Notes menu commands for Move up/down DO NOT WORK, either through the published shortcuts or the menu commands themselves. They need to! They should also be called IMHO Nudge.

Bob

[polarbreeze]

They should also be called IMHO Nudge.
Bob

I think the term "nudge" should be reserved for pixel-scale horizontal and vertical movements. Therefore it is not the appropriate term for vertical movements of notes, which only move in increments of a half-step. That should be called "move notes" as it is now.

On a related topic, I think that that rests should respond to the same vertical "move notes" commands as notes do. I think the user tends to think of a rest as a "silent note" so their manipulation should be rather similar to the manipulation of notes.

[q]

They should also be called IMHO Nudge.
Bob

I think the term "nudge" should be reserved for pixel-scale horizontal and vertical movements. Therefore it is not the appropriate term for vertical movements of notes, which only move in increments of a half-step. That should be called "move notes" as it is now.

I vote for "pitch-nudging". It clearly expresses that the action pertains only to transposing ... and naturally distinguishes itself from regular nudging.

Furthermore the term "pitch-nudging" has a grammatical advantage over the current Mac name of Notes>MoveNotesUpOneHalfStep. With "pitch-nudging" the User Manual can use verb clauses like, pitch nudge, pitch nudging, pitch nudged (... and it can refer to us as pitch nudgers!) Now see if you can make a verb out of MoveNotesUpOneHalfStep —i.e. "If you have already MoveNotesUpOneHalfStep-ed a note."

Problem with renamed "nudge" menu and tablature

Worth mentioning that, the new menu name convention doesn't fit the task of "tab string nudging." Also, whether the notation staff or tab staff is selected, the last four items of the Edit menu (the prior "nudge" menus) read the same. Not good!

MoveNotesDownAHalfStep is a misnomer when the tab staff is selected. When the user invokes this command Encore moves the tab number to the next lower string; and it increments the current fret number by the number of half steps between strings. That's all. The actual pitch of the note remains the same, therefore the function name is inappropriate and misleading.

MoveNotesDownAnOctave is equally more less sensical. (There! I think I've reached low lexical parity with the menu names!!) Encore was NEVER able to add octaves or user-defined intervals to tab numbers; the numbers have always been incremented by the interval between strings, and only when a fret number is pushed to a lower string, or returned to a higher string.

It's worth noting that the command MoveNotesUpAnOctave moves the fret numbers UP to the next higher string. A misnomer, but not a terrible outcome. However, the command MoveNotesDownAnOctave doesn't move the tablature fret numbers down a string, it moves them UP one string. Not that we want to keep any of this; I'm just underscoring that the effects of the commands are not reciprocal to each other.

Recommendation

When the use selects a tab staff:

• rename the MoveNotesDownAHalfStep and MoveNotesUpAHalfStep to MoveFretNumbersToNextLowerString and MoveFretNumbersToNextHigherString respectively.
  
• Disable the "octave" options or remove them from the menu

On a related topic, I think that that rests should respond to the same vertical "move notes" commands as notes do. I think the user tends to think of a rest as a "silent note" so their manipulation should be rather similar to the manipulation of notes.

I certainly think that rests should move with notes. Although they are typically normalized every few lines, and that should already be addressed, right? I dunno. Maybe it's complicated. (Is there a "Normalize Rest Position" command in Encore?)

---------- UPDATE as of 2012-09-03 -------------

As stated in LH ticket #636:

New Menu Items for Tablature String Assignments

Let's add two additional menu items to the bottom of the Notes menu:
he recommended menu change is one of the following:

    

Shortcuts:

The tablature shortcuts are the same as for Notes>MoveNotes"Up/Down".

This means the shortcuts for Tablature string assignment remain unchanged, but the user will now find a menu item that accurately describes the action. It's a win-win solution. The menu now makes sense. The shortcuts are the same as before.

Additional points:

1) MoveNotesAnOctave* menu items no longer affect selected tablature. Yay! (they used to change the string assignment by one string, which was a real semantic disconnect.

2) Notes>MoveNotes"Up/Down" still affects any selected notes AND any selected tab.

3) Move Tablature to Higher String and Move Tablature to Lower String call the same scan and function, so they any selected tab fret numbers AND any selected notes.

I think the impact of the latter will be clear to users and they will adjust their selection accordingly. However, with some work, the scan can omit notes when the scan looks for the objects to run the function on.

LASTLY, I strongly recommend moving a way from Control/Command =

Control/Command + makes better semantic sense, and so what if the user accidentally adds the shift key. It will do nothing to tablature, and they'll quickly see for notation it shifts the pitch one octave.

q

[commnthings]

I vote for "pitch-nudging".

I agree.

I certainly think that rests should move with notes.

I agree here too!

Bob