XML read and Write

[pierrelafosse]

Was somebody able to read XML files using encore 5.1 and get a consistent result?
see atta&ched files XML, result with ENCORE, result with FinaleNotePad
Was somebody able to read an XML File he/she produced with this program ? I could not, nor could I read it withe another program (FinaleNotePad "incorrect XML file")

[Fanchon]

Hi everybody,

I'm having some trouble with xml files exported from Encore too, although with Encore 5.0.1 (as far as I'm concerned), I'm able to open my own xml files produced with Encore.

1) the score layout is not the one expected : it seems that Encore (5.0.1) opens XML files with a default setup of 4 bars per system, which is far too much for your particular score, Pierre !
XML files should be displayed exactly as they were when saved, and it isn't the case.

2) Other music softwares (like Finale Notepad 2010 and sibelius) seem to refuse to open Encore XML files (at least, the ones I have been trying to produce ).

3) exporting to xml files produces some mistakes, for example : ending mesures are not displayed like ending mesures, but enclosed in repeat barlines instead.

Has anyone else encountered such problems ? Any solutions found ?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Bye,
Fanchon.

[riojazz]

pierrelafosse, in that first example, what does Encore look like if you set the number of measures per line to two, matching the original? I didn't see anything in that jumble that looked wrong, just scrunched.

[Denkster]

Hi Everybody,

Thanks for reporting these issues.
I found some too:

• wrong placement of double barline at key signature change on end of system,
• wrong barline types at repeats and end of score
• wrong number of measures per system
• problems importing in / exporting to Finale/Sibelius, if more then 1 of the 'left title' fields is filled,
• errors in ties on chords
• In your score I also notice the long tie is partly flipped wrong.

Some issues, regarding ALign Spacing, are probably solved with Encore 5.0.2 for Windows (get your free update at the Gvox site!). However, I'm afraid a lot of work still has to be done on Music XML..

kind regards
Eveline

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Eveline,

However, I'm afraid a lot of work still has to be done on Music XML . .

Indeed.

One problem with export is that Encore puts in the XML structure "containers" for precisely all the lyric particles (regardless of multiple lyric lines, notes without particles, and so forth) but neglects to actually put the lyric particle text in them.

Doug

[q]

 
Matt,

Do you want feedback on Encore Mac 5.05 MXML roundtrips (i.e. exporting a score as XML and reimporting the XML file to Encore)?

I'm seeing things like:

• wrong number of Measures per Systems (as reported by Eveline)
• missing endings (all are missing, four out of four)
• extra measure at end, with meter change
• no chord symbols
• no text objects
• no guitar bar symbols
• no margin indent
• no line or graphic objects

• Title text: Wrong font face, wrong font size on line 2
• Copyright: Wrong font face, correct size, truncated text, shows TWICE.

q

[q]

 
Matt, Do you want feedback on Encore Mac 5.05 MXML roundtrips (i.e. exporting/reimporting to Encore)?

Just noticed this after an XML round trip (Encore export/reimport to Encore): Any unbeamed note loses its stem when dragged!! Voicing is insignificant.

Resetting face value with a duration keystroke restores normality for selected notes.

q

[pierrelafosse]

I have installed ENCORE 5.0.2 to-day, and, I must admit I have seen an improvement : ENCORE is now able to read the XML file it has written .
But other editors cannot read the files written by ENCORE !!!!

And even, If one double-clicks that XML file written by ENCORE, one gets back an error message (sorry, it's in French..)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
La page XML ne peut pas être affichée
Impossible d'afficher l'entrée XML en utilisant la feuille de style XSL. Corrigez l'erreur, puis cliquez sur le bouton Actualiser ou réessayez ultérieurement.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nom commencé avec un caractère non valide. Erreur de traitement de la ressource file:///D:/Mes partitions/B/Bach JS/CANZONA...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
translation :
This XML page cannot be displayed
Impossible to display the XML entry using the XSL style-sheet. Fix the error........
Name starts with an invalid character. Error in hadling resource file:....

-------------------------------------------------------------------

As a reply to "why don't you fix the number of bars do 2 ? I will say that XML is intended to enforce cooperation between various editors. That implies that any of these editors shoud read the XML files from one another and keep everything of the editor which wrote it : page organisation, number of mesures per system, number of system per page, keep the lyrics (which ENCORE does not keep). keep the Text elements (title, author, and so on)

So far, Encore is not compliant with this goals. Did the developpers really read the XML specification ? I have some strong doubts.

[pierrelafosse]

As a reply to "riojazz" : If I change the number of mesures per line to 2, that does not improve. And the resulting midi file or the generated sound is completely wrong.
It seems that no formal analysis has been completed before writing the first line of programming code, and I am afraid that building updates over updates will result into an unusable monster.

[matt-olddev]

But other editors cannot read the files written by ENCORE !!!!

what editors? your error message looks like you are trying to open it not in a notation application? Encore's MusicXML files are UTF-16 format - the application you are trying to open it in might not support that format.

Did the developers really read the XML specification ? I have some strong doubts.

[/quote]

Did you? MusicXML is a very open specification, only a handful of tags are required to make a valid MusicXML file. Everything else is OPTIONAL, dependent on the specific implementation. As you know, music notation is complex! Add to that differences between every application and it becomes daunting (if not impossible) to create a format that is "lossless" -- i would advise against anyone to think of MusicXML as such with any 2 (or even the same!) applications.

Having said that, MusicXML does admirably attempt to be as thorough as possible -- as a result it requires a lot of development time -- Unfortunately, we only had enough resources to have basic support in Encore 5.0 and plan to expand upon this in future versions. In the mean time, i do hope to look into some of these bugs ASAP.

[Denkster]

Hi Pierre,

If one double-clicks that XML file written by ENCORE, one gets back an error message
--cip---
This XML page cannot be displayed
Impossible to display the XML entry using the XSL style-sheet.

If you double click a file, Windows looks in its registry which application is connected to the extension.
Apparently, on your system, the extension ".xml" is connected to another program, not Encore.
Probably a browser.
The error message tells you: "this other program is not capable to display the content of a MusicXML-file properly, using the XSL style-sheet that it found".
You need to open your MusicXML-capable program first and from there, import or open the MusicXML-file.

Eveline

[pierrelafosse]

Double-clicking an XML file :

The problem is that double-clicking an XML file produced by ENCORE causes an error message, while double-clicking an XML file writen by FinaleNotePad and/or SharpEye results into a listing of that file. It would probably be interesting to investigate why ? And by the way to investigate why the XML file produced by ENCORE cannot be read by other editors (FinaleNotePad in my own experience, but also Sibelius in Fanchon's)

[pierrelafosse]

As a second reply to Eveline :

- XML files are text files built according a number of syntactic rules.
- MusicXML files are a subset of XML files, dedicated to score description. As such they should be conforment to the overall XML syntax. – and to additionnal Music rules—
-
When one doubleclicks a valid XML file, be it a MusicXML or not, one gets back a listing of the XML text.

My concern is that the XML files I could produce using ENCORE cannot be listed when I double-click, and that I get back a message which points out a syntax error (which one, I cannot know, having no knowledge of the XML specs), whereas the MusicXML files produced by other programs (SharpEye, FinaleNotePad) aree listed . I understand that these files are coformant to the general XML syntax, opposite to the ENCORE « MusicXML » files.
And, I believe this is not a coincidence that other musicEditors cannot read the ENCOREMusicXML files.

In the new 5.0.2 delivery, ENCORE (only ENCORE, not the other editors) is able to read the files it has written .
In my opinion, instead of fixing the problem of the erroneous writer, the devloppers at GVOX have updated the input syntax analyser in order to enable it to accept the erroneous output.

When one uses Google to sarch for the GVOX internet site, one gets :
« Gvox is the leader in Easy to use Music Notation software and Midi Sequencing software…. »
This sentence should be a strong commitment to build a reliable program, which ENCORE is not yet.

I must admit that I could read with ENCORE 5.0.2 XML files different from the first example I tried – which still does not work. It was my first attempt, and I was not lucky. But the output problem and minor others still remain.

[q]

Additional observations shown in green:

 Do you want feedback on Encore Mac 5.05 MXML roundtrips (i.e. exporting a score as XML and reimporting the XML file to Encore)?

I'm seeing things like:

• wrong number of Measures per Systems (as reported by Eveline)
• missing endings (all are missing, four out of four)
• extra measure at end, with meter change
• no chord symbols
• no text objects
• no guitar bar chord symbols
• no right or left margin indent
• no line or graphic objects
• staff sheet transposition lost
• Staff sheet Instrument lost (i.e. Program Name)

• Title text: Wrong font face, wrong font size on line 2
• Copyright: Wrong font face, correct size, truncated text, shows TWICE.
• Composer: Text shows twice, one below the other

q

[q]

... I believe this is not a coincidence that other musicEditors cannot read the ENCORE MusicXML files. In the new 5.0.2 delivery, ENCORE (only ENCORE, not the other editors) is able to read the files it has written. In my opinion, instead of fixing the problem of the erroneous writer, the devloppers at GVOX have updated the input syntax analyser in order to enable it to accept the erroneous output.

Are you suggesting that Gvox is intentionally employing an exclusive proprietary scheme inside an "open" XML format?

In the past I have successfully imported Encore's 'limited' XML description into Sibelius, but I had not yet tried it with Encore 5.

Today I exported XML from Encore 5.05. While importing the Encore XML Sibelius crashed shortly after mentioning:

"MusicXML files do not precisely specify which instruments are used. Sibelius can choose the instruments for you, or you can choose them yourself. Would you like Sibelius to choose the instruments?"

Then, upon ingesting it, the mighty Sibelius fell to its knees and died. We can't blame Encore for Sibelius' untimely demise, but it does suggest that there are issues with the XML that Encore exports.
q