Measure stretching

[q]

Feature and User Guide issues discussed here:

http://www.gvox.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1595

[Rob M.]

Feature and User Guide issues discussed here:

http://www.gvox.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1595

Seems that link is useful only for the beta testers. Or is there something there that you wanted all of us to see?

Or should I have been allowed access to that forum -- whatever it was?

[q]

Feature and User Guide issues discussed here:

http://www.gvox.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1595

Seems that link is useful only for the beta testers. Or is there something there that you wanted all of us to see?

Or should I have been allowed access to that forum -- whatever it was?

Sorry. It's never been clear to me if this area (Product Manual Corrections) is public or restricted. I've enquired and never received an reply. Apparently my subconscious assumption (restricted) rose to the surface.

Thanks to your comment, it's now clear that Product Manual Corrections is a public area of the forum. Whether that's intended or not remains unclear.

Indeed the link I included leads to a restricted area. That majority of that post contained mainly points that are publicly obvious, so I'll add some of them here in another post.

q

[q]

 
The purpose of Measure Stretching is unclear -- because it's is poorly named and poorly defined in the user guide -- and because presently we get LOTS of different effects depending on which note or notatational object is dragged, and when.

One thing is clear. Measure Stretching does not stretch measures. If and when it works it merely expands or contracts the distances between objects within a single measure. Therefore it should be renamed.

The purpose of Control-drag (measure stretching) is explained on page 71 of the Mac manual, but in Encore 5 it does not behave as described. Perhaps it used to.

The following text is from the Mac Encore 5 manual:


Stretching One Measure

If you hold down [control] and right-click (Windows) or command-click
(Mac) to drag a note or rest horizontally, the measure is either stretched
or compressed. Spacing within the measure is scaled.
Measure Stretching in Encore 5 does not fulfill this definition. An action that satisfies the Encores definition of "measure stretching" occurs only when we drag the first or last note of the measure, which compresses or expands the positioning of all notes. However we get a different result depending on what note is control-dragged, except in Encore 3.07, which works as described.

Results are erratic, and extreme note compression results in fused notes. But you should not be able to produce unintended results as shown in this movie:


http://www.theoreticallycorrect.com/gvox/Control-Drag%20note.mov
Dragging leftward as far as possible empties the preceding measure, and appears to cause its notes to jump to the current measure, well fused to the glob of notes. But dragging a measure shows that they are still in their original measure, but badly fused.

The following explanation (from the manual) is not well worded:


Stretching a System

If you press [control]+[shift] while stretching a measure in one staff, the
stretch will also be applied to the notes and rests in the same measure for all
staves in the system.
Note: The stretch function will affect clef changes added to measures. Other
operations do not move clefs.

I think it means: If you hold the shift key (while Control-dragging a note) Encore will also the stretch the notes in all measures directly below, if they exist in the same system.

"System stretching" does NOT work in Encore 4.5 or Encore 5.03. Control-Shift select merely selects the notehead, just as we'd expect from Shift click Although the "system stretching" feature worked in Encore 3.07, notes rarely aligned well ... and as you might expect, "align Spacing" erased the stretch!

q

Feature request: I'd like to see a feature where dragging affects the position of the current note AND all remaining notes in the measure.

[q]

from what i can tell the stretch only is for notes to the left of the note you are dragging (all notes to the right get shifted but keep exact distance from note dragging)
so if you want to stretch all notes in a measure, ctrl+drag the rightmost note.

I see that behavior only in some circumstances. Other behaviors are eaily provoked. Poke around a bit more and see if you find consistent behavior or not.

I recall seeing Stretch work 95% as described in the manual ... but that was back in Encore 3.

Matt, if you're summation is true, then the present function in Encore 5 needs to conform to the manual, or visa versa.

Page 248 states:

When stretching within the measure, the stretch function will both expand and compress the data on either side, compressing the data in the direction you are dragging and expanding the data in the other. Because the relationship between notes will be scaled from the beginning and end of the measure, a gradual opening can be created without losing the vertical spacing relationship established with the spacing function.

note also cntr+drag let-barline lets you shift entire bar with no stretching

Yes, a nice feature that I use! And of course, much more beneficial if Encore would retain that setting as a barline offset even after Align Spacing.

There are several user guide entries that overstate the need for (and usefulness of) stretching.

Page 248 of the manual states:


Keep in mind when adding the pitches without the clef that the pitch locations should be referenced to the current clef. Select and use the spacing function for the measure. Next use the stretch function to drag notes in the middle of the measure either left or right until you have enough room to accommodate the new clef

... mmmMM?

Here the manual incorrectly describes a very fragile workaround for a problem that shouldn't exist! Encore's Align Spacing should account for click-entered clefs ... automatically, or when manually invoked. Stretching only temporarily solves the clef spacing issue, and the effect is lost at the first Align Spacing.

Furthermore, stretching is defined in various places in the user guide, and never the same twice. Page 70:

If you hold down [control] and right-click (Windows) or command-click (Mac) to drag a note or rest horizontally, the measure is either stretched or compressed. Spacing within the measure is scaled.

... something has to happen to improve the user guide and keep it in step with the current feature set.

q

[q]

 
The latest user guide states:

Stretching a System
Pressing [control]+[shift] while stretching a measure in one staff also applies the stretch to the notes
and rests in the same measure for all staves in the system.

Note: The stretch function will affect clef changes added to measures. Other operations do not move
clefs.

Indeed. 'System stretching' does affect the location of click-entered clefs! But I can't think of a good reason why that is allowed.

Here's a stab at describing things more clearly:

Multi-stave note-space stretching: Control-Click-Shift-Drag

Stretching normally applies only to notes in a single measure on a single staff. However you can stretch notes in a particular measure, system wide (in all staves of the parent system.) For instance, you can increase note spacing in measure 3 of all staves in a multi-stave system. To do so drag with [control]+[shift].

Hopefully the details and keystrokes will be worked out, so the following explanation is unnecessary:

NOTE: Add stretching only when you are sure that you will not need to apply Align Spacing to this protion of your score. Stretching will be lost if you do.

VERY IMPORTANT: Be sure to perform control-click before the pressing shift key. In other words, the necessary sequence is Control-Click-Shift. If you press shift first you'll enter a mode for selecting one or more adjacent or discontiguous notes (subsequently adding the control key fails to change the function.) Additionally, if you successfully drag-stretched some notes, before you can stretch drag again, you must release and repress the keys in the proper order. If you just click to drag again, with control-shift still down, Encore will enter the 'note selection' mode previously described.

q

[Rob M.]

...
Indeed the link I included leads to a restricted area. In most of that post I see mainly points that are publicly obvious, so I'll add some of them here in another post.

Thanks for the "another post", q -- much appreciated. Good stuff for me to keep in mind after I've upgraded to E5W.

[Denkster]

Here the manual incorrectly describes a very fragile workaround for a problem that shouldn't exist!

Hear hear.
Well said.

I would like to see better solutions, so we can drop this 'stretch' function alltogether.
In the meantime - for a start - let us please drop all current descriptions, the terms and wordings are far too confusing.

There is never one note, measure or system stretched with this action.
Only some space is stretched or compressed.
Actually when some spaces between objects are stretched, at the same time other spaces are compressed.

This was my contribution to a new description:

I tried to 'visualize' the effect of stretching thus:

Imagine, the barlines are the two poles of a clothesline.
Your notes are on the staff like socks pegged to the clothesline.
Now imagine the line is made of very strong rubber band!
You grab the rubber band somewhere and start to pull in the direction of one pole.
Then you see the socks at that side go closer together (linear proportionally), while at the other side of your hand the distance between them increases (linear proportionally).

[q]

I would like to see better solutions, so we can drop this 'stretch' function altogether.

Any ideas?

Actually when some spaces between objects are stretched, at the same time other spaces are compressed.

Exactly. At the very least the User Guide should do away with the term Stretching and 'measure stretching.'

Stretch/Compress Spacing is a better more encompassing alternative.

q