Encore Tablature--String Nudging Issue (String Indications)

[q]

  

NOTE: Encore's user Manual uses the term "string indication" for what I refer to as "string assignment" in the following discussion.
Encore does not allow users to ˜leapfrog nudge" tab numbers past an occupied lower string.

Ideally an attempt to nudge a tab number onto an occupied string would send the note (past the occupied string) to the next unoccupied string.

Alternately—and preferrably!—Encore could/should allow a nudgeless approach for string assignments (i.e. a direct form of string assignment, as explained below.)*

Without either of these options Encore users cannot notate the full normal-realm of guitar playing in tablature. Encore has the wherewithal to calculate the proper fret number, and to move the"note" to the desired string, updating the fret number as needed ... indeed. Unfortunately, this is not possible when another note is in the way.

Ideally Encore would simply allow users to drag fret numbers to the desired string -- but clearly that's not a trivial change of interface.

Here's a very simple example of my suggestions, and obvious reasons why we need more flexibility and specificity with respect to string indications:


A "nudge down" (command - ) has no effect in situations like this -- because the note on the second string is 'in the way':

                       
A more flexible 'nudge down' would leapfrog the tab number 0 over the occupied 2nd string, and it would appear as a 9th fret on the G string.

This limitation surely affects guitarists, banjoists and fiddlers who want to notate tablature, but cannot do so with Encore.

Here's a classic example:

The guitar "power chord" is the essence of rock guitar accompaniment ... but Encore can't create tablature for a droning E power chord, like 079900 (which is quite commmonly used in Celtic accompaniment as well.) Look at this example:




The first chord shows the only way that Encore will tab this chord.
The second chord shows how I want the lower four string tabbed.
The third chord shows how I want the upper two strings tabbed.
The fourth chord (in the next measure) shows how I want the entire chord tabbed, but Encore is unable to do this. I was only able to achieve this result graphically.

Here are some chords for a popular song. These are extremely popular chords and Encore can notate none of them in tablature:



Here's another "can't do" chord example:




The first chord shows Encore's only tablature option
The second chord shows what I want (again, this was achieved graphically)
Such chord voicings are very common in altered tunings, particularly tunings with intervals of seconds and unisons between strings. (Now I understand why Score won the publishing market for tablature fifteen years ago when, in every other respect, Encore was the logical candidate!)

Banjo players also need to specify tablature string assignments -- even more so than guitarists — because the highest note in a banjo chord is often on the fifth string (the lowest tab line.) As long as Scruggs-style banjoists can't move the high note to their fifth string they're unable to write even the simplest score when chords include the fifth string.

Banjo players are some to the strongest tablature enthusiasts. Presently they're stuck using applications like TablEdit, which is nearly devoid of layout tools, such as flexible measures per line, floating test blocks, etc ...

Guitarists and banjo players clearly constitute the largest part of the professional and amateur tablature market a wide audience is affected, so 'string assignment' is definitely an important point to address.

The problem is rooted in Encore's complete reliance on:

        1) drag selection
        2) nudging for tablature string assignment

Suggestion: The best UI would be to allow the user to drag a fret number to a string. The fret would update mid drag so the user can see the result before releasing. This would be an extensive change in UI, and if that is not tenable at present, the following solution would offer the same flexibility without much fuss.

* Short of allowing the user to drag a tab number to the desired string (and recalculate the fret of course), here's a proposed simple solution:


How about a contextual popup menu that appears when the user right-clicks (or control clicks) a tab number? The menu presents a list of strings (only the strings that the note can legitimately move to.) The user selects the desired string number, Encore transposes the number appropriately and dispatches it to the intended string.

Additionally Encore would allow string assignment via right-clicking treble clef. (Sometimes that would be easier to understand than moving frets from string to string.)

Although contextual menus are not readily discoverable, they are fairly simple, and they clearly side step the issues associated with marquee based nudging, plus this approach more direct and more specific than nudging.
When string assignments are possible, Encore can then provide the complete and normal range of tablature possibilities.

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[q]

The larger problem is that Encore requires tablature writers to enter ALL data in a notation staff (such as treble clef.) Sibelius and Finale no longer have this limitation.

In Sibelius users can enter tablature numbers directly of the tablature staff, then copy and paste those measures into a treble clef to produce staff notation, which makes FAR more sense, as we'll see. (I recognize the need for a function for generating tab from notation, but once that's achieved, and the user begins hand editing the tablature, generally it should be a one-way street in from tab-to-treble, at the users discretion.)

Encore's approach to tablature generation is problematic for many reasons:

1) many tablature users (and writers) are unfamiliar with treble clef and lack treble clef literacy. These may be very talented musicians who use tablature extensively AND need a scoring program. But treble clef based notation input would be a real struggle, or perhaps impossible. Unfortunately this means Encore is not a good working environment for them.


http://www.gvox.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1923
2) there is no live connection between treble clef and tablature staves, in other words, editing one does not update the other. (Not that we'd ALWAYS want this... but it does make a logical default)

3) the lack of a live connection sets the stage for some challenging edit cycles. If we change treble clef in Encore we must regenerate the tab notation. Encore is not smart enough to preserve "string indications" (i.e.e nudges)so when we regenerate tab, all "string indications" are lost. This will cause endless frustration until Encore has a feature that remembers "string indications" and applies then when regenerating tablature. One approach could be to rely on the standard classical string indication symbols (i.e. numbers in circles), however, these symbols are not very common in popular guitar treble clef, and this approach would not address the issue noted here in point No. 1.

4) Tablabure is a complete credible source for generating treble clef, while the reverse is not always true. String indications are an essential ever-present aspect of tablature. Therefore tablature is inherently more specific than treble clef. Tablature will always generate correct treble clef (except sometimes for matters of enharmonics.) Generating treble clef from tablature makes the most sense, because tablature can generate a perfectly accurate source, with string indication information always present. Treble clef often (usually?) lacks that information, and once lost, it's gone, gone, gone.

5) There are MANY limitations in Encore that prevent us from placing fret numbers at a certain location, the most obvious being simple dragging of fret numbers—lack of drag is the main culprit. Direct tab number entry would solve (or at least side step) ALL of those issues.

CONCLUSION: Encore should have an option like Sibelius where users can enter tablature by number on the lines of the tablature staff, with the option of generating treble clef from the tablature staff. (In Sibelius the user accomplishes this by selecting an area of tablature and pasting it into the treble clef—Sibelius does the math and gnererates the treble clef. This is 180° from the present implementation in Encore. The user should have the option of Encore's existing approach, where tablature is generated from notation. (In Sibelius the user accomplishes this by selecting an area of notation and pasting it into the tab staff—Sibelius does the math and gnererates the tablature (but of course, it knows nothing of string indication in such a case.)

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[stavro]

Very nice posts q. I'm also a guitarist and appreciate how Encore is infuriating in this regard, especially because it has the potential for so much more. I'm hoping to be able to address these issues immediately in the Windows version if GVOX assigns me to the development department. I do think that fixing existing broken functions are more important than adding new features and I'm hoping to have free-reign on bug-fixes.

[Jake Tejas]

Well ... please fix it on the Mac version, too!

Jiminy, it is hair-pulling frustrating. I feel worse for the folks that have been waiting 4 years for a fix. I just recently purchased Encore and spent two days trying to figure out why I couldn't nudge tabbed notes to different strings. At the same time my friend with the earlier Encore 4.5 version was having no problems whatsoever.

To repeat from my earlier post, Encore should be able to handle tablature in two ways (yes, both!):
(1) One should be able to add the tablature, with the standard notes appearing on the normal staff.
(2) One should be able to enter standard notes and have a computer-guessed version of tablature appear on the tab staff - with one caveat. The tablature generated should be COMPLETELY edit-able.

The bottom line is musicians should have the freedom to have the tablature appear at the desired location. After all, one purpose of Encore is to communicate to others the intent of the composer. Also, every other feature in Encore is edit-able, so why not the tabs!?!

So, one strategy I use for entering standard notes into Encore for guitar is ... to use Tuxguitar (freeware) to input tablature and have it generate the standard notes. Then, I open Encore in the foreground and go note by note reading off of Tuxguitar (in the background) to enter the standard notes into Encore.

[q]

  
Here are some observations regarding copying and pasting between tab and treble clef staves in Encore:

• Oddly, it's possible to paste treble clef into a tablature staff, even though this makes no logical sense.
  
• And sure enough, it is possible to copy the contents of the tab staff and paste "fret numbers" into a treble clef. This doesn't make any sense either.

What would be useful:

• Copy tablature content from the tablature staff, then paste corresponding notation into a notation staff (notation meaning treble clef, bass clef, etc.)
  
• Copy treble clef and paste corresponding fret numbers into at tablature staff. Granted such a feature is not terribly significant because we already have "Generate Tablature" command, and as previously mentioned, the direction of treble-to-tab is does not retain string indications.The main benefit to this approach would simply be a copy/paste alternative to "Generate Tablature"]

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